RE: do u realy want to stop the war???

["Steve Upson" <s.upson@nt...com>]

hi all friendsloversplanes

while u  all sitting and relaxing in your nice european houses (shity
weather though),there is some people in this lovely world off ours that
suffers badly from terrorist and from this old-new wave of islamic 
terrorist
groups.

u can sit down with your famillies and watch in the c.n.n about all the 
evol
of this world  that u may think happends far far from u...but it's not.

nobody likes war and nobody likes to see death but sometime u have to think
a few steps forward and to do something before it will be too late and
before sadam will have a nuclear bomb that can reach london and bristoll or
any other european city,so next time before u protest about something,sit
down for a moment of deep thinking or if it is to hard for u ,u can allways
catch a plane to visit israel or ground 0 in ny.

nobody likes or want wars but sometimes u have no choise to be sure to open
your eyes and mind .......

 "CULLUM, David" <dcullum@gl...gov.uk> wrote:

        '...the nuclear bomb is a blunt instrument in the hands of 
disturbed
children playing for marbles...' Gerard Langley, 'Hard Object', 1979.
Discuss ref. Dubya, Saddam & Phony Blair....

        respect & peace to all friendsloversplanes


        atb



        David

        CULLUM

        MAIDeN Project Officer

        01452-426891

        MAIDeN Project

        Environment Department

        Shire Hall

        GLOUCESTER

        GL1 2TN





        Clearly CNN has failed to broadcast any news over the last 30 
years or so
about the IRA, UVF, Real IRA (any flavour you like), Baader Meinhof, BSM
etc.. Anyone who thinks that we in Europe are immune from or have never 
seen
terrorism at close hand is either 5 tears old or has been living in a cave.



        This could, of course, be indicative of the current isolationist 
attitude
of Israel. Israel, of course, has had its fair share of atrocity over the
years since the 6-day war and the Munich Olympics, of course, but what
Israel is doing to what small parts of Palestine that it has not
misappropriated or annexed is totally contrary to World opinion. As is any
suggestion of armed incursion into Iraq just to satisfy the political
ambitions (distract domestic attention away from a poor economy towards an
unwarranted punch-up in the middle-east) of a corrupt US President who
justifies his actions by quoting The Old Testament and an ineffective but
nevertheless ambitious British Prime Minister who knows that his policy on
Iraq in so much against UK public opinion that he is now trying to deflect
attention away from that in the hope that we, the public will consider
public service reform to warrant closer moral attention.



        Neither Bush nor Blair will be re-elected next term.



        Sure, Saddam is an evil, corrupt and murdering bastard, but he and 
his
regime were being contained (apart from the fact that whilst he lives in
privileged luxury, his people live in relative deprived poverty). Why then
change the status quo if nothing else has changed other than the name and
political colour of the US president?



        The answer, of course is money and political ambition, naked and 
blind.



        Bush and Blair are perfect support for the view that anyone who 
wishes to
stand for political office should be automatically barred from doing so
because they clearly crave power and, as we all know, power corrupts.



        The rhetoric that is being used by the Bush-Blair alliance makes 
it very
clear that the UN inspections are nothing more than a charade. Saddam very
probably has some very nasty toys, but the chances of finding any concrete
proof are very slim, so what will happen is that the US will get impatient
with Hans Blix, forcing an end to inspections. The UN will say that nothing
has been found, so no invasion is warranted or sanctioned by any UN
resolution. The USA will then say that as it is the largest financial
contributor to the UN, it will cease contributions unless a new resolution
is forced through (it's my ball and if you won't play the game that I want
to play, I'm taking the ball home).



        The cause of conflict is usually the ambition and greed of corrupt 
and
unimaginative people. Bush has the ambition to serve a second term, but
lacks the imagination to solve the USA's economic and social problems at
home. Blair is much the same. So they resort to conflict.



        Israel steals land from a people whom it keeps imprisoned and 
subjugated.
The UN has told Israel to stop this and to release annexed lands back to 
the
Palestinian state, which it has failed to do, but because Israel has such a
strong lobby within the US Senate and Congress and the US is the
self-appointed enforcer of the UN, nothing is done. Israel does this 
because
it is not content to make do with the lands that it was granted in 1948. 
Its
actions are no more morally correct than the Iraqi invasion Kuwait. The
difference is that Israel is buddy-buddy with the playground bully and 
there
is no oil involved.



        Like any bully, Israel considers only its own greed and wants and 
not the
plight and suffering of the Palestinian people that it displaces. The 
world,
of course, has seen such travesties of justice and humanity before,
Zimbabwe, Uganda, Northern Ireland and, oh yes, Germany in the late 1930's
and early 1940's.



        The extension of Avihay Robin's argument that "before it will be 
too late
and before sadam will have a nuclear bomb (sic)" is that everyone on the
planet should be incarcerated because we all have the potential to commit
murder, irrespective of whether any one individual has or not.



        Saddam is not a direct and immediate threat to world peace. The 
USA is.



        Steve Upson









        hi all friendsloversplanes

        while u  all sitting and relaxing in your nice european houses 
(shity
weather though),there is some people in this lovely world off ours that
suffers badly from terrorist and from this old-new wave of islamic 
terrorist
groups.

        u can sit down with your famillies and watch in the c.n.n about 
all the
evol of this world  that u may think happends far far from u...but it's 
not.

        nobody likes war and nobody likes to see death but sometime u have 
to think
a few steps forward and to do something before it will be too late and
before sadam will have a nuclear bomb that can reach london and bristoll or
any other european city,so next time before u protest about something,sit
down for a moment of deep thinking or if it is to hard for u ,u can allways
catch a plane to visit israel or ground 0 in ny.

        nobody likes or want wars but sometimes u have no choise to be 
sure to open
your eyes and mind .......

         "CULLUM, David" <dcullum@gl...gov.uk> wrote:

        '...the nuclear bomb is a blunt instrument in the hands of 
disturbed
children playing for marbles...' Gerard Langley, 'Hard Object', 1979.
Discuss ref. Dubya, Saddam & Phony Blair....



        respect & peace to all friendsloversplanes



        atb









        -----Original Message-----
        From: blueplanes-admin@st...net 
[mailto:blueplanes-admin@st...net]On
Behalf Of avihay robin
        Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 5:59 PM
        To: blueplanes@st...net
        Subject: [Blueplanes] do u realy want to stop the war???







        -----Original Message-----
        From: Hans Degrauwe [mailto:hans.degrauwe@ad...be]
        Sent: 06 January 2003 18:36
        To: blueplanes@st...net
        Subject: Re: [Blueplanes] (no subject)

        Hi all,



        I must say I know all this, because I'm e real big Marillion-fan...

        I even paid for that record in advance (and my name is in the 
booklet of
the limited edition album...)

        Now they're trying to do the same thing all over again for the 
next album.

        One difference though...

        They're trying to raise enough money to pay all promotiom-stuff
themselves....

        This instead of one or another recordcompany.

        They just asked their fans what they all think about the idea...



        Hans.



        ----- Original Message -----


        From: Steve Burt <mailto:steve@pk...com>


        To: Blue Aeroplanes <mailto:blueplanes@st...net>

        Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 4:49 PM

        Subject: [Blueplanes] (no subject)



        Happy New Year all.



        Did anyone read the Doors supplement in the Sunday Times this week,
especially the Marillion article?



        For those who didn't, it ran something like this:



The example of pomp rockers Marillion - not the hippest of bands - suggests
a new business paradigm. Dropped by their record company for being
unfashionable, the band had to cancel a US tour, until Jeff Woods, a fan
from Raleigh, North Carolina, took matters into his own hands. Woods, who
had been to 75 Marillion concerts, raised #37,000 online from other fans 
and
the tour went ahead. Realising the power of the internet to build a
like-minded artistic community, within months 13,000 fans had each paid
Marillion #16 in advance - totalling more than #200,000 - which allowed the
band to record their recent CD Anoraknophobia. Suddenly, Marillion had the
biggest recording advance of their career and no record company to call
their tune.

"We were the first band to recognise the potential of the internet," said
the singer Steve Hogarth. "We have cut out the middle men in suits, who 
have
been taking most of our money for the past 20 years. What is so brilliant
about the net is that we can ask 40,000 fans at the touch of a button what
they think about a proposed release. It makes music incredibly democratic."

Having sacked their manager and fired their booking agent - fans now book
the shows - the band employ a full-time web editor to keep 
www.marillion.com
<http://www.marillion.com/>  up to date. He sits in the office next to 
their
recording studio - a fan could not get much closer without being on stage -
and band members visit the site's forum twice-weekly to contribute to the
debate.

"Sure, the net threatens the record industry," Hogarth said, "but it 
doesn't
threaten the artist. It frees the artist."



You can't say we didn't try with Swagger but an idea worth pursuing, maybe.



Steve B







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