Re: Worrying development...

[Ed Griffin <ed.griffin@fa...co.uk>]

Ha!  So I was there that evening as well!  Should have spotted the date!

We left soon after the band finished to drive back to London.  What time
does the venue shut after a gig?  The peak shouting in the street looks
like 2.00AM.

Thanks  Ed
  ------------------------------

*From:* blueplanes-bounces@bl...org [mailto:
blueplanes-bounces@bl...org] *On Behalf Of *Matthew Semple
*Sent:* 29 May 2014 10:34
*To:* A Discussion list for The Blue Aeroplanes
*Subject:* Re: [BluePlanes] Worrying development...



Good to have some experts amongst the fanbase.



I liked this question as the date rang a bell - "Friday 6th December 2013
to Monday morning.  Was this an ‘average’ weekend for noise from the 
venue?"



Look at the date on this video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je2VdXrB4Oo

Thanks Matthew


 ------------------------------

From: ed.griffin@fa...co.uk
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:18:20 +0100
To: blueplanes@bl...org
Subject: [BluePlanes] Worrying development...

Hi Chris,



I’m an architect who works on schemes like this, so should be able to help
in what we can do to protect The Fleeces position.



Just by luck I was in Bristol last Thursday so swung by in the afternoon to
have a closer look.  The venue is close to the disused office building
opposite, but it is possible to build flats that have sufficient sound
reduction to prevent any future complaints, or if there are complaints, the
Council has a record proving there is no nuisance.  I think it is down to
personal opinion about the benefits of turning a disused office building
into residential – it brings an old building into use/means there is a more
natural mix of people in the area out of office hours/but should only
happen if it respects the existing local community (The Fleece!)



However there a few risks which I have listed below in no particular order.



The Planning Approval if given needs to very robust by having a good Noise
Survey and a Condition attached ensuring the flats get built to the noise
reductions levels required.  I have some comments on the Noise Report below
but the requirement is for some very expensive glazing which the Developer
may ‘forget’ to install or it is carried out poorly and all the benefits
are lost.  Therefore my main objection to this application would be to try
and get a Condition attached forcing the Developer to build them correctly
– the best way to do this would be for the Council to insist on
post-completion noise testing of a random sample of flats.  This test data
then to be sent to the Council Environmental Health Officers who would also
be the people dealing with any future complaints.  The Council may not be
keen on this as it means more work for them, and the Developer won’t like
it because of the additional cost and will also mean they can’t cut 
corners.



One advantage to the Council however will be that any noise complaints will
go to the Council Environmental Health Officer who will be able to deal
with them simply if they have this test data.  Otherwise they will have an
ongoing problem.  The Fleece probably already has some contact at the Env
Health as they are part of the Licensing I believe.  If you have any
contacts there it is probably worth talking to them to make sure they are
aware of what is happening, and that they will be the ones fielding the
complaints if it is not done right.  They will also be asked to comment on
any issues from the Planning Application and so it is an ideal time now to
catch them and make our point strongly.



Looking at the Noise Report:



Is the original survey correct?

It was carried out Friday 6th December 2013 to Monday morning.  Was this an
‘average’ weekend for noise from the venue?  Were bands/events on Friday
and Saturday?  If not then the survey really needs to be carried out
again.  The microphone position looks like it is right opposite and I
assume is at first floor level as there are no flats proposed at ground
level on this side.  The results they get are interesting – they basically
show that the traffic along Victoria Street is noisier than the Fleece!
This could be true as the fleece has the best sound proofing I have ever
seen – massive thick stone walls!  (However are the openings facing
St.Thomas street blocked up as well otherwise any noise would just breakout
through these).  The peak noise event on the St.Thomas side is at about
2.00AM – is this kicking out time and therefore could be noise from
numerous satisfied Fleeceheads on their way whole talking in rather high
voices?  This peak is well above anything else suggesting the music itself
is less of a problem.  Noise from people leaving the venue would be raised
as an issue at the next Licensing application and so is just as much a
problem.  I will see if I get one of our Acoustic Consultants to run over
the report to see if it was all carried out to the right British Standard
etc.  The report does state that there may be peak levels due to the Fleece
venue but says the survey was carried out over a weekend and so represents
the worst case for music from the venue, and higher noise levels than those
measured would most likely be from shouting in the street.  I would
therefore ask for more detail on this statement.  Shouting, even if not as
loud as the traffic is likely to be more irritating to residents and so
more likely to raise complaints.



Conclusions of the Report:

The report gives a sound reduction requirement for the new windows and
walls for the building.  These are based on the worst case which would be
bedrooms on the Victoria Street side at night requiring a big reduction.
This is shown to be achievable by using a special heavy double glazing
system (10mm-24 cavity-15mm special).  This will be a very expensive
window.  Crucially the report also makes clear the flats have to be
mechanically ventilated so as residents have to open the windows!  The
balconies do not matter as the resident has chosen to go onto the balcony.
These windows reduce the noise by 45dB on average which works for the
average noise levels, but a peak could still be 65dB which is way over the
45 required.  I think you are allowed to argue that it works for the
average and so can be approved.  I’m not expert enough to know what this
means in reality but seems to mean shouting in the street might still be an
issue.  There is also some info on wall construction but this is simpler
and cheaper to get right so will be less of a problem.  Noise reduction
though relies on good workmanship and airtight junctions – which
unfortunately are rarely achieved on new buildings unless the builder is
forced to get it right.  Therefore the requirement for post- completion
testing is crucial.



Other issue:

On line poll.

The Planners will take the communities views into consideration and a good
Developer would have had some form of public consultation – either an
exhibition or leaflet drop, and request feedback which should then be
incorporated into the application.  If this was not well publicised they
can be asked to do it again.  Therefore the online poll you have started is
important as it will prove what the views of the community are.  All the
stuff about the importance of the venue to the city/internationally really
helps even if it not a strict ‘Planning’ issue.



Formal objections on the Council website.

As per the link you gave, these are also just as important and need to
emphasise that any development needs to take in the fact that the Fleece
exists nearby.  The non-Planning issues are less important here.  All of
these objections will be counted and summarized into a report written by
the Planning Officer which will then recommend for
approval/refusal/deferring and go to the Planning Committee for the vote.



Planning Committee meeting.

These are held about every month and you may be allowed to speak as an
objector for a few minutes.  We can find out more about this later.



Hope this helps for now.  Can you check that the times of the survey were
OK as noted above.  Any questions on this lot let me know!  I will follow
this up with a written objection to the Planners.



Ed


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